Sam, I am a Trinitarian (writ large) so I am not arguing against your main premise but I am struggling a bit With a significant aspect of your argument and it has to do with the nature of time and God’s relationship to it. Perhaps you can help me. Is time an aspect of the creation? Or the stage upon which creation takes place?
You commenting here is proof you believe that we live in an interpersonal reality. This reality had to come from the first cause -- God. Allah cannot account for an interpersonal reality, but a triune God can.
Ironically, Trinitarians on one side & (JW & Islam-Muslims) on the other, are two opposite extrems of the SAME EXACT HERESY that makes Jesus a different person.
Trinity is polytheisim no different then claiming the Greek pantheon are just different persons of the same “essance”, “substance” & or “Being” of the “one true God”… “LOOK MA, PAGANS ARE ACTUALLY CHRISTAIN MOTHEIST TOO, WE ALL WORSHIP ONE OUSIA” 🤡Trinitarians real faith is actually in a pantheon of three greater & lesser gods
THE SUBSERVIANT JESUS-GOD
“My father is greater then I”
“No man knows, only my father”
To Father: “THEE THE ONLY TRUE GOD”
“I can of my own self do nothing”
SO THE SUBSERVIANT GOD FORCES EITHER
A) ACCEPT JESUS AS A DIFFERENT LESSER GOD PERSON IN A PANTHEON
TRINITY= three different persons with diffiferent minds, amounts of Knowledge, power & authority over each other.
OR
B) A DIFFERENT PART OF THE SAME PERSON IN A WAY LIKE YOUR HEAD & RIGHT ARM
MODALISIM - one person who is God manifested in different ways but not different persons
[PERSON SENDING = PERSON SENT!!]
Isaiah 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and 👉MY SERVANT👈 whom 👉I👈 have chosen: that ye may KNOW and BELIEVE 👉me👈, and UNDERSTAND that
👉✝️I AM HE✝️👈....11 I, even I, am the LORD; and 💢👉BESIDE ME👈 THERE IS NO SAVIOR💢....13 Yea, BEFORE THE DAY was✝️I AM HE✝️;
John 8:24....IF YE BELIEVE NOT that ✝️I AM HE✝️, ye shall DIE IN YOUR SINS…. 28. ... LIFTED UP the Son of man, THEN shall ye KNOW that ✝️I AM HE✝️ .....58 .....BEFORE Abraham was, ✝️I AM ✝️. 59 …took they up stones to cast at him:...) 👈TIME JESUS SPECIFICALY CLAIMS TO BE GOD & THEY UNDERSTOOD PERFECTLY!!
“WHO” it was (what person) that came “IN THE FLESH”, IS THE DETERMINING FACTOR IN WHAT IT MEANS TO BE “ANT-CHRIST”! Even Islam claims Jesus was the Jewish messiah/Christ who was to come in the flesh. They all deny “WHO” , what person came Christ in the flesh!?!
1Jn 2:22...Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son. Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; …”
You cant claim to believe that "I am HE" if you believe Jesus is a different person then God Father because to you Jesus is not HE but "some other different person sent by Him"!?!
To deny father is to deny son because they are same person that came in flesh!
Psalms 118:16 💪THE RIGHT HAND💪of the LORD is ✝️EXALTED✝️
(John 12:32… if I be ✝️lifted up✝️ from the earth...
John 17:1..the hour is come; ✝️GLORIFY thy Son,✝️ ..)
... THE 💪RIGHT HAND💪 of the LORD DOETH…. 22 …STONE WHICH THE BUILDERS REFUSED IS BECOME THE HEAD STONE OF THE CORNER…
ISAIAH 52:6.. MY PEOPLE SHALL 🎯KNOW MY NAME🎯…. IN THAT DAY that ✝️I AM HE✝️ that doth speak: 👉behold, IT IS I👈. .. FEET OF HIM THAT BRINGETH 😇GOOD TIDINGS😇,… 10. THE LORD HATH MADE BARE 💪HIS HOLY ARM💪.
John 8:24....IF YE BELIEVE NOT that ✝️I AM HE✝️, ye shall DIE
Why would “ChristianS” avoid describing God as head & right arm DENOUNCING it a metophore & heresy while appealing to abstract obscurities & “incomprehensible” as true faith?!
In the garden…Satan states NO, you will be more WISE……his minions come along & say no "3 in 1" is more WISE & humble in the face of God’s grandeur, only a “incomprehisable” mystery of “true faith”
SINGLE MOST IMPORTAINT COMMAND
Mark 12:29 Jesus answered, "The 💥MOST IMPORTANT💥 is, 'Hear, O Israel: THE LORD OUR GOD, the Lord IS ONE. 👈.........30 And thou shalt LOVE the Lord thy God with all ….. this is the FIRST commandment.
(That LOVE must be with ONENESS)
If you cannot grasp the simple concept of "ONE" then the rest of all of theology (good or bad) is moot.
I “Wonder” what would God have had to say if he really had wanted to comunicate that he was only ONE PERSON ????
A) SINGULAR PERSON:
Gal 3:20.a mediator is NOT A MEDIATOR OF ONE, (HEIS) but GOD IS ONE. (HEIS)
The whole point of this passage defines God as one person in two ways:
a) SENTENCE STRUCTURE - in the sentence structure itself "BUT" being used to contrast the difference between a party of persons verse the one person of God.
The “but” points out the contrast between multiple different persons in a mediation party v the “one” person of God. God is not like a mediation party with multiple different persons a mediation is for multiple different persons but God is only one person who acts as a mediator.....
b) TERMINOLOGY - In specific term of HEIS here is exclusive to a CARDNIAL NUMBER & the specific context for this particular cardinal number under consideration here is wrt a number of persons, as demonstrated with (a)
The number of persons in a mediation is NOT HEIS PERSON 👉BUT👈 GOD IS HEIS
GOD & MAN AT SAME TIME. …easy peasy DISTINCTIONS but SAME PERSON in heaven that came in flesh ….to deny it is a damndable heresy.
B) SINGULAR PERSON:
Job 13:8 Will ye accept HIS PERSON? will ye contend for God?
(not a nexious "substance" of singular & plural persons)
B) SINGULAR PERSON:
Hebrews 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and THE EXPRESS IMAGE OF HIS PERSON,....
(singular not some nexious "substance that is both singular & a plurality of persons).
…upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the RIGHT HAND OF THE MAJISTY ON HIGH.
(When I sit down my right hand is sitting at my right hand. Ironically right hand is exactly How God describes Himself as Jesus)
THE “RELATIONSHIP”
My right hand is with me and it is me. It is not as great as my head and it is distinct from my head yet it is still just me, one person of me. ... My right hand can comunicate with you at the same time my head speaks a voice and the comunication is different in each at the same time, is equal to me & not a different person!?!) Yes body parts do “love” 1 Cor 12:25. That there should be
When someone goes to put a needle in my arm IT REACTS to pull back but my head tells it no stay there it is for the best….but only a fool would try to conclude that my right arm is a different person even though it has “a will of its own” (see Ch7 also the flesh lust against the spirit and visa versa)…
JESUS CLAIMS TO BE FATHER.
John 14: 8. Philip saith unto him, Lord, SHEW US THE FATHER,.. 9. Jesus saith unto him, HAVE I BEEN SO LONG TIME WITH YOU, AND YET HAST THOU NOT KNOWN ME, Philip? he that hath SEEN ME HATH SEEN THE FATHER; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
The "oneness" between Christ and the father is not comparable to a man and his wife, for only a fool would say "When you have seen me you have seen my wife, how sayest thou then, Shew us your wife?" The whole point to Christ statements is that he is the SAME person as the father.
Rom 1:20. For THE INVISIBLE THINGS OF HIM……are CLEARLY SEEN, being understood…EVEN his eternal power AND GODHEAD;….THEY ARE WITHOUT EXCUSE;… Can’t appeal to “beyond the limited human mind to comprehend”, can’t appeal to “Incomprehensible”:
Why would “ChristianS” DENOUNCE head & right arm as metophore & heresy while appealing to abstract obscurities & “incomprehensible” as true faith?!
Sam, I am a Trinitarian (writ large) so I am not arguing against your main premise but I am struggling a bit With a significant aspect of your argument and it has to do with the nature of time and God’s relationship to it. Perhaps you can help me. Is time an aspect of the creation? Or the stage upon which creation takes place?
In this article I touch on the nature of time hopefully that is helpful. https://www.christianpost.com/voices/if-god-is-all-knowing-how-can-man-have-free-will.html
Very good. I like your style of writing, too.
Well said Brother
What you said is nonsensical. You have no argument whatsoever against Islam.
You commenting here is proof you believe that we live in an interpersonal reality. This reality had to come from the first cause -- God. Allah cannot account for an interpersonal reality, but a triune God can.
Ironically, Trinitarians on one side & (JW & Islam-Muslims) on the other, are two opposite extrems of the SAME EXACT HERESY that makes Jesus a different person.
Trinity is polytheisim no different then claiming the Greek pantheon are just different persons of the same “essance”, “substance” & or “Being” of the “one true God”… “LOOK MA, PAGANS ARE ACTUALLY CHRISTAIN MOTHEIST TOO, WE ALL WORSHIP ONE OUSIA” 🤡Trinitarians real faith is actually in a pantheon of three greater & lesser gods
THE SUBSERVIANT JESUS-GOD
“My father is greater then I”
“No man knows, only my father”
To Father: “THEE THE ONLY TRUE GOD”
“I can of my own self do nothing”
SO THE SUBSERVIANT GOD FORCES EITHER
A) ACCEPT JESUS AS A DIFFERENT LESSER GOD PERSON IN A PANTHEON
TRINITY= three different persons with diffiferent minds, amounts of Knowledge, power & authority over each other.
OR
B) A DIFFERENT PART OF THE SAME PERSON IN A WAY LIKE YOUR HEAD & RIGHT ARM
MODALISIM - one person who is God manifested in different ways but not different persons
[PERSON SENDING = PERSON SENT!!]
Isaiah 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and 👉MY SERVANT👈 whom 👉I👈 have chosen: that ye may KNOW and BELIEVE 👉me👈, and UNDERSTAND that
👉✝️I AM HE✝️👈....11 I, even I, am the LORD; and 💢👉BESIDE ME👈 THERE IS NO SAVIOR💢....13 Yea, BEFORE THE DAY was✝️I AM HE✝️;
John 8:24....IF YE BELIEVE NOT that ✝️I AM HE✝️, ye shall DIE IN YOUR SINS…. 28. ... LIFTED UP the Son of man, THEN shall ye KNOW that ✝️I AM HE✝️ .....58 .....BEFORE Abraham was, ✝️I AM ✝️. 59 …took they up stones to cast at him:...) 👈TIME JESUS SPECIFICALY CLAIMS TO BE GOD & THEY UNDERSTOOD PERFECTLY!!
“WHO” it was (what person) that came “IN THE FLESH”, IS THE DETERMINING FACTOR IN WHAT IT MEANS TO BE “ANT-CHRIST”! Even Islam claims Jesus was the Jewish messiah/Christ who was to come in the flesh. They all deny “WHO” , what person came Christ in the flesh!?!
1Jn 2:22...Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son. Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; …”
You cant claim to believe that "I am HE" if you believe Jesus is a different person then God Father because to you Jesus is not HE but "some other different person sent by Him"!?!
To deny father is to deny son because they are same person that came in flesh!
.....THE BASTARD CHILD JESUS?
https://substack.com/@allendaves/note/p-205079622?r=1xhldx
Psalms 118:16 💪THE RIGHT HAND💪of the LORD is ✝️EXALTED✝️
(John 12:32… if I be ✝️lifted up✝️ from the earth...
John 17:1..the hour is come; ✝️GLORIFY thy Son,✝️ ..)
... THE 💪RIGHT HAND💪 of the LORD DOETH…. 22 …STONE WHICH THE BUILDERS REFUSED IS BECOME THE HEAD STONE OF THE CORNER…
ISAIAH 52:6.. MY PEOPLE SHALL 🎯KNOW MY NAME🎯…. IN THAT DAY that ✝️I AM HE✝️ that doth speak: 👉behold, IT IS I👈. .. FEET OF HIM THAT BRINGETH 😇GOOD TIDINGS😇,… 10. THE LORD HATH MADE BARE 💪HIS HOLY ARM💪.
John 8:24....IF YE BELIEVE NOT that ✝️I AM HE✝️, ye shall DIE
Why would “ChristianS” avoid describing God as head & right arm DENOUNCING it a metophore & heresy while appealing to abstract obscurities & “incomprehensible” as true faith?!
In the garden…Satan states NO, you will be more WISE……his minions come along & say no "3 in 1" is more WISE & humble in the face of God’s grandeur, only a “incomprehisable” mystery of “true faith”
SINGLE MOST IMPORTAINT COMMAND
Mark 12:29 Jesus answered, "The 💥MOST IMPORTANT💥 is, 'Hear, O Israel: THE LORD OUR GOD, the Lord IS ONE. 👈.........30 And thou shalt LOVE the Lord thy God with all ….. this is the FIRST commandment.
(That LOVE must be with ONENESS)
If you cannot grasp the simple concept of "ONE" then the rest of all of theology (good or bad) is moot.
20pg “CLIFTS NOTES”
https://www.scribd.com/document/844419833/20-Page-Summary-PDF-1
"CHILDEREN OF A LESSER GOD" https://allendaves.substack.com/p/children-of-a-lesser-god?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android&r=1xhldx
https://substack.com/@allendaves/note/c-286164394?r=1xhldx
https://allendaves.substack.com/p/islam-strong-delusion-by-god-but?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android&r=1xhldx
Here is an article showing the necessity of interpersonalism within the Godhead. https://shoutsofgrace.substack.com/p/god-was-never-alone?r=223gzz&utm_campaign=post-expanded-share&utm_medium=post%20viewer
I “Wonder” what would God have had to say if he really had wanted to comunicate that he was only ONE PERSON ????
A) SINGULAR PERSON:
Gal 3:20.a mediator is NOT A MEDIATOR OF ONE, (HEIS) but GOD IS ONE. (HEIS)
The whole point of this passage defines God as one person in two ways:
a) SENTENCE STRUCTURE - in the sentence structure itself "BUT" being used to contrast the difference between a party of persons verse the one person of God.
The “but” points out the contrast between multiple different persons in a mediation party v the “one” person of God. God is not like a mediation party with multiple different persons a mediation is for multiple different persons but God is only one person who acts as a mediator.....
b) TERMINOLOGY - In specific term of HEIS here is exclusive to a CARDNIAL NUMBER & the specific context for this particular cardinal number under consideration here is wrt a number of persons, as demonstrated with (a)
The number of persons in a mediation is NOT HEIS PERSON 👉BUT👈 GOD IS HEIS
GOD & MAN AT SAME TIME. …easy peasy DISTINCTIONS but SAME PERSON in heaven that came in flesh ….to deny it is a damndable heresy.
B) SINGULAR PERSON:
Job 13:8 Will ye accept HIS PERSON? will ye contend for God?
(not a nexious "substance" of singular & plural persons)
B) SINGULAR PERSON:
Hebrews 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and THE EXPRESS IMAGE OF HIS PERSON,....
(singular not some nexious "substance that is both singular & a plurality of persons).
…upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the RIGHT HAND OF THE MAJISTY ON HIGH.
(When I sit down my right hand is sitting at my right hand. Ironically right hand is exactly How God describes Himself as Jesus)
THE “RELATIONSHIP”
My right hand is with me and it is me. It is not as great as my head and it is distinct from my head yet it is still just me, one person of me. ... My right hand can comunicate with you at the same time my head speaks a voice and the comunication is different in each at the same time, is equal to me & not a different person!?!) Yes body parts do “love” 1 Cor 12:25. That there should be
When someone goes to put a needle in my arm IT REACTS to pull back but my head tells it no stay there it is for the best….but only a fool would try to conclude that my right arm is a different person even though it has “a will of its own” (see Ch7 also the flesh lust against the spirit and visa versa)…
JESUS CLAIMS TO BE FATHER.
John 14: 8. Philip saith unto him, Lord, SHEW US THE FATHER,.. 9. Jesus saith unto him, HAVE I BEEN SO LONG TIME WITH YOU, AND YET HAST THOU NOT KNOWN ME, Philip? he that hath SEEN ME HATH SEEN THE FATHER; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
The "oneness" between Christ and the father is not comparable to a man and his wife, for only a fool would say "When you have seen me you have seen my wife, how sayest thou then, Shew us your wife?" The whole point to Christ statements is that he is the SAME person as the father.
Rom 1:20. For THE INVISIBLE THINGS OF HIM……are CLEARLY SEEN, being understood…EVEN his eternal power AND GODHEAD;….THEY ARE WITHOUT EXCUSE;… Can’t appeal to “beyond the limited human mind to comprehend”, can’t appeal to “Incomprehensible”:
Why would “ChristianS” DENOUNCE head & right arm as metophore & heresy while appealing to abstract obscurities & “incomprehensible” as true faith?!
20pg “clifts notes”
https://www.scribd.com/document/844419833/20-Page-Summary-PDF-1